觀看 CNBC 對商務部長霍華德·盧特尼克的完整專訪 20250403
You're going to say a commerce secretary, Howard Lutt, that you've been through a lot over the years, Howard very seasoned, obviously. But today's move is an unexpected for you about right. I mean, you saw Monday, I was kind of like a bonus, the way it turned around. And when it finally did happen, and we got the numbers, the zesty reaction, is it overdone? You think or about what you thought?
你要說商務部長霍華德·盧特，這些年經歷了很多，霍華德顯然經驗豐富。但今天的舉動對你來說是個意外，對吧？我是說，週一的時候，我還覺得像是個意外之喜，市場就那樣反轉了。當它最終發生，我們拿到數據時，那種熱烈的反應，是不是過頭了？你覺得呢，還是這正是你所預期的？
Well, I think the long term, or even the medium term, you've got to expect the United States from America, and markets are going to do extremely, extremely well. I understand the reordering of the rest of the world's markets, but they have been taking advantage of the trading policy, the markets policy, all the policies of the United States of America were designed to make you rich and make us poor. You know, take our factories from us, go build elsewhere. I mean, imagine this, why are all of our pharmaceutical products, the ingredients or pharmaceutical products made in Asia? That's not cheap labor, that's just a failed policy that lets the rest of the world gut America. And that's what Donald Trump is here to address, and he's going to change it, and he's going to protect America for our children and our grandchildren.
我認為，無論是長期還是中期，你必須預期美國及其市場將會表現得非常、非常好。我理解世界其他市場的重新排序，但它們一直在利用貿易政策、市場政策，美國所有的政策設計都是為了讓你致富，讓我們變窮。你知道，從我們這裡拿走工廠，去其他地方建造。我的意思是，想像一下，為什麼我們所有的藥品，藥品的原料或成品都在亞洲製造？那不是因為廉價勞動力，那只是一項失敗的政策，讓世界其他國家掏空美國。而這正是唐納德·川普要來解決的問題，他將改變這一切，他將為我們的子孫後代保護美國。
Hey, the Secretary, who came up with the equation that we showed, I know it's hard to get a clean number for tariffs plus all the other things that you would constitute as unfair trade, whether it's currency manipulation or regulations or whatever, but there is some, I don't know if I call it confusion, but there's some downright derision about using a trade deficit imbalance and then subtracting it, and putting it over another, and coming up with some of these, what looked like almost arbitrary numbers taken there it is, did you come up with that? I don't know if you had advanced counsel.
嘿，部長，我們剛才展示的那個方程式是誰想出來的？我知道要為關稅加上所有其他你們認為不公平貿易的東西（無論是貨幣操縱、法規還是其他什麼）得出一個確切的數字很難，但有一些——我不知道該稱之為困惑還是徹底的嘲諷——關於使用貿易逆差失衡然後減去它，再除以另一個數字，得出這些看起來幾乎是隨意選取的數字。是你想出來的嗎？我不知道你是否事先諮詢過。
All right, the council stops, stop. The council of economic advisors, right? Coupled with the United States trade representative, they have huge staffs of economists who study this and have been studying this for years, they put out the non-tariff trade barriers, I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was talking to a trade minister of a big country and I said, look, we can't sell cars in your market.
好了，顧問團停下來，停止。經濟顧問委員會，對吧？加上美國貿易代表署，他們有大批經濟學家研究這個問題，並且已經研究了多年，他們發布了非關稅貿易壁壘，我給你舉個例子。昨天我和一個大國的貿易部長談話，我說，聽著，我們無法在你們的市場銷售汽車。
You've got to do something that the change that it's obviously unfair. And at the very end of the conversation, the trade minister dropped his head and said these words, he said, fine, we will provide your car manufacturers, the same subsidy we provide hours. Just think about that for a minute. So you've got all these countries, they charge a, a that or a consumption tax, what do they do with that tax? If they turn around and sell really cheap energy to their steel company, then their steel companies destroy hours, put hours out of business, and then all of the steel goes elsewhere,and we can't defend ourselves in a war. If they take that and give it back as a subsidy to their car manufacturer, then their car manufacturer actually has a cost of 40,000, when our car manufacturer has 50,000, and of course we're never gonna sell a car. So this is the reordering of fair trade. And what happens is people think it's all about tariffs. It's about those non-tariff trade barriers. - Well, be nice. - That's what we are addressing.
你必須採取行動，因為這種改變顯然不公平。在對話的最後，貿易部長低下頭說了這些話，他說，好吧，我們會給你們的汽車製造商提供與我們提供給自己汽車製造商相同的補貼。請花一分鐘想想這件事。這些國家徵收增值稅或消費稅，他們用這些稅收做了什麼？如果他們轉身以非常低廉的價格將能源賣給他們的鋼鐵公司，那麼他們的鋼鐵公司就會摧毀我們的產業，讓我們倒閉，然後所有的鋼鐵都流向其他地方，我們在戰爭中就無法自衛。如果他們將這些稅收作為補貼返還給他們的汽車製造商，那麼他們的汽車製造商實際成本是 40,000，而我們的汽車製造商成本是 50,000，當然我們永遠賣不出一輛車。這就是公平貿易的重新排序。人們以為這全是關稅的問題，但其實是那些非關稅貿易壁壘的問題。- 嗯，態度好一點。- 這正是我們正在解決的問題。
- It'd be nice if everybody on that list, all those countries said, you know what? You know, we've seen that the air in our ways. And we're gonna go zero zero. We wanna make it fair across the board, but how likely is that? How soon you expect to see some concessions, or conversely retaliatory tariffs which just causes us to go much longer than anyone probably wants to be more costly and could be a full-scale trade war. If it goes that way, which are you expecting? - I expect most countries to start to really examine their trade policy towards the United States, America, and stop picking on us.
「如果名單上的所有國家都說：『我們已經看到問題所在，我們將歸零處理。我們希望公平對待所有人。』那當然很好，但這可能性有多大？你預期多久會看到一些讓步，或者反過來，報復性關稅只會讓情況拖延更久，成本更高，甚至可能引發全面貿易戰。如果朝這方向發展，你預期會如何？」「我預期大多數國家會開始認真審視他們對美國的貿易政策，停止針對我們。」
Stop saying that we can sell our corn to India. Stop saying that we can sell our beef anywhere. Just stop treating us so poorly. If we are the great consumer of the earth, the United States buys everybody's products. They buy everybody's goods. You just have to treat us fairly, and that is the problem. So some countries, you know, which have these vats and they use these VAT taxes to, you know, they basically subsidize their domestic production.
別再說我們可以把玉米賣到印度，別再說我們的牛肉可以銷往任何地方。別再這樣不公平地對待我們。如果我們是地球上最大的消費者，美國購買所有人的產品，購買所有人的商品。你們只需要公平對待我們，這就是問題所在。所以有些國家，你知道，他們利用這些增值稅，基本上是在補貼他們的國內生產。
That's gotta really be balanced. We've gotta figure that out together. But what you're going to see is you're gonna see the tariff rates decline. You're gonna see the opening of all of these global markets to our agriculture, to our ranchers, to our fishermen. You're going to see American production start to rise and finally be fair. And I think that we have stock comes syndrome with so used to being abused. And Donald Trump's been talking about this for 35 years.
這必須要取得平衡。我們必須一起找出解決辦法。但你將會看到的是關稅率下降。你將會看到所有這些全球市場對我們的農業、牧場主和漁民開放。你將會看到美國的生產開始上升，最終變得公平。我認為我們有斯德哥爾摩症候群，太習慣被虐待了。而唐納德·川普已經談論這個問題 35 年了。
- Mr. Secretary, in terms of the suggestion that we're being abused or being fair, what would you say to the United Kingdom? Or what would you say to Australia where we have a trade surplus? Where they could look at us and say, we're the winners of that competition, and yet we are going to tariff them. - Well, look, they each have the lowest rate available, right? I mean, if you really dissect these trade numbers that are made publicly, I mean, the United Kingdom part of their trade surplus is that they have the London medals exchange and they count the importing of bullion. I mean, come on. So I mean, if you really dissect these things, you
realize they have a 20% that, okay? And these things, but they work
hard. - So we don't have a trade surplus if there's anything else to?
- 部長先生，關於我們被虐待或公平對待的建議，你會對英國說什麼？或者你會對澳大利亞說什麼？我們在那裡有貿易順差。他們可以看著我們說，我們是這場競爭的贏家，而我們卻要對他們徵收關稅。- 嗯，看，他們各自都有最低的稅率，對吧？我的意思是，如果你真的剖析這些公開的貿易數字，英國部分貿易順差的原因是他們有倫敦金屬交易所，並且他們計算了金條的進口。
- Well, they have it. If you looked at them and really studied it, you'd see they have a good deficit with us, right? And Australia buys a lot of our planes, which we really appreciate, but we're really looking at the production for people to get jobs.
我是說，拜託。如果你真的仔細分析這些事情，就會發現他們有 20%的比例，好吧？這些事情，但他們很努力。-所以如果還有其他因素，我們就沒有貿易順差嗎？
-嗯，他們有。如果你仔細觀察並深入研究，就會發現他們對我們有很好的逆差，對吧？而且澳洲買了我們很多飛機，我們非常感激，但我們真正關注的是為人們創造就業機會的生產。
So the stuff of Mexico and Canada, I'd really like to talk about, because USMCA is still in place. So if you make a car in America and the parts are made in Canada, Mexico, there is no tariff, the auto parts business of Canada and Mexico are not being touched. Energy prices are not being touched. People need to understand we did not today, you know, semiconductors are not included, pharmaceuticals are not included. Donald Trump's gonna deeply study those and those are gonna come later on how to resure from Taiwan or that semiconductor manufacturing. We have to protect ourselves at some point.
關於墨西哥和加拿大的事情，我真的很想談談，因為 USMCA 仍然有效。所以如果你在美國製造汽車，零件來自加拿大、墨西哥，就沒有關稅，加拿大和墨西哥的汽車零件業務沒有受到影響。能源價格也沒有受到影響。人們需要明白，我們今天沒有，你知道，半導體不包括在內，藥品也不包括在內。唐納德·川普將深入研究這些問題，這些問題以後會涉及如何從台灣或其他地方恢復半導體製造。我們必須在某個時候保護自己。
Right? America has to be able to protect itself. We can't have everything, I think about it. All of our electronics are primarily built in Taiwan. It used to be built here, our policies let Taiwan take it all. And now, nine thousand miles away, our way of life is being built. And Donald Trump is saying, come on, that's gotta be here. That's why you've got Apple announcing, it's gonna do 500 billion of production here. I mean, think about it.
對吧？美國必須有能力保護自己。我們不能什麼都想要，我是這麼想的。我們所有的電子產品主要都是在台灣製造的。以前這些東西是在這裡製造的，是我們的政策讓台灣接手了這一切。而現在，九千英里之外，我們的生活方式正在被塑造。唐納德·川普說，拜託，這些東西應該在這裡製造。這就是為什麼蘋果宣布要在這裡進行五千億美元的生產。我是說，想想看。
We all hold our iPhones, which we love. Why do they have to be made in Taiwan and China? Why can't those be made with robotics? In America. And you know what Donald Trump has said, they're going to be made in America.
我們都拿著我們喜愛的 iPhone。為什麼它們必須在台灣和中國製造？為什麼不能用機器人在美國製造？你知道唐納德·川普說過什麼，它們將在美國製造。
- Secretary Leitner, there have been questions raised already about whether a company like Apple would be able to get a carve out from this because they have promised to build more in the United States. The markets trying to figure out how permanent these tariffs are going to be. If there is a negotiation taking place, Scott Beson, the Treasury Secretary said yesterday that we may have to let these sit for a while, but I'd also heard that you'd been in charge of already negotiating with some countries, maybe giving them wish lists to say, here's what it would take to get these tariffs reduced or remove. It is that the case. And if so, which countries are you negotiating with? - We're talking with all of the major countries of the world. And we've been talking to them for more than a month. This has been coming. We've said it's been coming.
- 萊特納部長，已經有人提出疑問，像蘋果這樣的公司是否能從中獲得豁免，因為他們承諾會在美國增加生產。市場正試圖弄清楚這些關稅會持續多久。如果正在進行談判，財政部長史考特·貝森昨天表示，我們可能得讓這些關稅持續一段時間，但我也聽說你已經負責與一些國家進行談判，或許給他們願望清單，說明要減少或取消這些關稅需要什麼條件。情況是這樣嗎？如果是的話，你正在與哪些國家談判？- 我們正在與世界上所有主要國家進行對話。我們已經與他們談了一個多月。這一直是預料之中的。我們說過這會發生。
The key is will they take our agricultural products? Will they treat us fairly? Can they treat us fairly? And the answer is, over time, that is going to be yes. American products are going to be better sold elsewhere in the world, but the fact remains we are treated unfairly. And they have built structurally into their markets, this unfairness. The subsidies to their steel companies, the subsidies to their car companies. That's why we don't do well.
關鍵在於他們是否會接受我們的農產品？他們會公平對待我們嗎？他們能公平對待我們嗎？而答案是，隨著時間的推移，這將會是肯定的。美國產品在世界其他地方將會賣得更好，但事實是我們受到了不公平的對待。他們在市場結構中植入了這種不公平。對他們的鋼鐵公司的補貼，對他們的汽車公司的補貼。這就是為什麼我們表現不佳。
Did you ever think about why we don't sell cars in Europe? Why we don't sell cars in Japan or Korea? Why we could never really sell cars or very difficult for us to sell cars in China? I mean, it's not that hard to figure out. We can't sell corn. We can't sell beef. We can't sell cars because the rules are stacked against us. And I think it's interesting. It's time to change the rules and make the rules be stacked. Fairly, the United States of America, we need to stop supporting the rest of the world and start supporting American workers. Let's take a for instance. Australia, for instance, hit with a 10% tariff. And they don't accept beef imports from the United States. That goes back to when they thought Mad Cal was going to be imported with some of those things. If they were to start taking American beef imports, would that be something that would get them an exemption? And how quickly do you think that could happen? I don't think the word exemption is going to be a factor. I don't think that's such a thing.
你有沒有想過為什麼我們不在歐洲賣車？為什麼我們不在日本或韓國賣車？為什麼我們在中國幾乎賣不了車，或者賣車非常困難？我的意思是，這並不難理解。我們不能賣玉米。我們不能賣牛肉。我們不能賣車，因為規則對我們不利。我覺得這很有趣。是時候改變規則，讓規則變得公平了。美國需要停止支持世界其他國家，開始支持美國工人。舉個例子來說，澳洲被課以 10%的關稅。而且他們不接受從美國進口的牛肉。這可以追溯到他們認為瘋牛病會隨著那些東西進口的時候。如果他們開始接受美國牛肉進口，這是否能讓他們獲得豁免？你認為這能多快實現？我不認為「豁免」這個詞會是一個因素。我不認為有這樣的事情。
I think what there's going to be is a world of fairness. Let's go try to figure out ways for the world to treat us more fairly and more properly. I don't think it's effective for the world to retaliate. I mean, those things are silly. We are the consumer of the world. We buy 20 trillion dollars worth of goods. And we are basically the buyer of everybody else's in the world's items. So what is the point of them going higher? So that we go higher? I mean, come on, look, if you give a 50% discount, what he's saying is,
我認為未來將會是一個講求公平的世界。我們應該設法讓世界以更公平、更合理的方式對待我們。我不認為世界採取報復手段是有效的，那些做法實在很愚蠢。我們是全球的消費者，購買了價值 20 兆美元的商品，基本上我們就是全世界其他國家產品的買家。所以他們提高關稅的意義何在？難道是要我們也跟著提高嗎？拜託，如果你給出 50%的折扣，他所說的意思就是...
look, we need to rebuild American manufacturing base. We can't allow the United States of America to not produce steel. We can't allow the United States of America not to produce pharmaceuticals. We can't have a war where we can't get antibiotics. And we have to call another country to make a missile or to make a plane. I mean, these are obvious things we need to have domestic production. We need to employ Americans. And I think that is the model that Donald Trump is seizing on. We need to employ Americans for the good of the United States of America. Factories are coming back.
聽著，我們必須重建美國的製造業基礎。我們不能讓美利堅合眾國連鋼鐵都無法生產，不能讓美國連藥品都製造不出來。我們不能陷入一場連抗生素都無法取得的戰爭，還得打電話請其他國家製造飛彈或飛機。這些都是我們必須擁有本土生產能力的顯而易見的事。我們需要雇用美國人，我認為這正是川普所抓住的模式——為了美利堅合眾國的利益，我們必須雇用美國人。工廠正在回流。
And here's the key. Factories now can use robotics. And so American workers can be much more efficient with robotics. You're going to see the greatest surge in training for what we call trade craft. Teaching people how to be robotics mechanics engineers and electricians for high tech factories. Each VAC, it's think about your air conditioning system. No, no, no, no. When you build one of these great factories like an apple factory, they use air conditioning to cool it. That is really high tech.
而這裡的關鍵在於，工廠現在可以利用機器人技術。因此，美國工人透過機器人技術可以變得更加高效。你將會看到我們所謂的工藝技術培訓迎來最大的熱潮。教導人們如何成為高科技工廠的機器人機械工程師和電工。每個 VAC，想想你的空調系統。不，不，不，不。當你建造一個像蘋果工廠這樣的大型工廠時，他們會使用空調來降溫。這真的是高科技。
It's a great paying job and it requires a high school education and training and our Americans are ready for it. And you're going to see the greatest resurgence of factory building and factory production in America. This is our time. It is time for us to rebuild it and that's what Donald Trump is out to do. He's changing the way people think about production in America. It's time to stop exporting and time to stop taking all our factories and letting the rest of the world have them. It's time to bring them home along with that. There are sometimes are some unintended consequences. If it's the biggest reset of the economy, US and global economy since World War II, the stock markets one thing and I can understand, we had 20% gains the last couple of years and it's done well. But there's other markets in a world order to think about in terms of currency moves and bond yields and it does matter because we're interconnected. So I'm going to paint your story just quickly. The dollar is declined significantly since the president came in office. What if that became disorderly? I mean, Europeans have already lost a lot of money in the stock market and even more with the euro appreciating. What if they got to the point where interest rates suddenly had to spike? The dollar started to go in the free fall.
這是一份高薪工作，只需要高中學歷和培訓，而我們美國人已經準備好了。你將會見證美國工廠建設和生產最偉大的復興。這是屬於我們的時刻，是時候讓我們重建這一切，而這正是唐納德·川普所要做的。他正在改變人們對美國生產的看法。是時候停止出口，停止把我們所有的工廠拱手讓給世界其他地區。是時候把它們帶回家，同時也帶來一些意想不到的後果。如果這是自二戰以來美國乃至全球經濟最大規模的重置，股市是一回事，我可以理解，過去幾年我們有 20%的增長，表現不錯。但世界上還有其他市場需要考慮，比如貨幣變動和債券收益率，這確實很重要，因為我們是相互關聯的。所以我會很快地描繪一下你的故事。自總統上任以來，美元已經大幅貶值。如果這種情況變得無序會怎樣？我是說，歐洲人已經在股市上損失了很多錢，而歐元升值讓他們損失更多。 如果情況發展到利率突然不得不飆升的地步呢？美元開始自由落體般下跌。
Investment capital no longer came into the United States like it has been because there's a fundamental shift in the world order in terms of currency. Is there a Trump put there? Maybe there's not a Trump put on the stock market, but what about on a collapsing dollar? It just can't happen. I mean, if you think about it, the United States is a $29 trillion economy and we are the consumer of $20 trillion of goods. Other countries are producers of goods and we are the buyer of goods. So if you want to build your product, you're going to have to build it in America if you want to avoid these tariffs or these countries have to fundamentally alter the way they do their business.
投資資本不再像以往那樣流入美國，因為世界貨幣秩序發生了根本性轉變。是否存在所謂的「川普防護」？或許股市沒有川普防護，但對於崩潰的美元呢？這根本不可能發生。想想看，美國是一個 29 兆美元的經濟體，我們消費了 20 兆美元的商品。其他國家是商品生產者，而我們是商品購買者。因此，如果你想製造產品，要避開這些關稅就必須在美國生產，否則這些國家就必須從根本上改變他們的商業模式。
Those two things going together are going to result in interest rates in the United States of America being much, much lower. High quality production jobs, much, much higher domestic production of huge amounts of factories. That's GDP. Remember, when Donald Trump says we've got $5 trillion of factories coming to America, think of five trillion divided by his four years. That is huge GDP growth on factory building, which all of you are not yet thinking about.
這兩件事結合在一起，將導致美國的利率大幅降低。高品質的就業機會，國內大量工廠的生產大幅提升。這就是 GDP。記住，當唐納德·川普說我們有 5 兆美元的工廠要來美國時，想想這 5 兆美元除以他的四年任期。這在工廠建設方面帶來了巨大的 GDP 增長，而你們都還沒有考慮到這一點。
These factory commitments are going to create huge growth in America. Mr. Secretary, that's the big question I want to ask you about factory commitments and one of things that I was speaking to a whole number of CEOs yesterday who need to actually make some decisions. And the question is how soon do they make those decisions? And they talk about what they think of as the scheme of chicken, a almost political game, which is to say they don't know whether these tariffs which are being announced today are going to be the same in a month, two months, six months and more importantly in four or five years, when in fact the factories that they would have to invest in today wouldn't be up in running.
這些工廠的承諾將在美國創造巨大的增長。部長先生，這正是我想問您關於工廠承諾的大問題，也是我昨天與多位需要做出決策的 CEO 們交談時提到的。問題是他們應該多快做出這些決策？他們談到了他們認為的「膽小鬼遊戲」，幾乎是一種政治遊戲，也就是說，他們不知道今天宣布的這些關稅在一個月、兩個月、六個月後是否會保持不變，更重要的是在四五年後，當他們今天必須投資的工廠甚至還未建成投產時，這些關稅會是什麼樣子。
What do you say to that CEO who says, you know what? I'm actually going to take a, I'll take a flyer and I'll wait a year or two, see how this all plays out before I do anything, which also means that we're going to have a real freeze in terms of investment. I think you're going to say and we've been feeling it every day that you're going to build in America, that this is a reordering of global trade and it's really thoughtful. If you understood how rough these other countries are on American products, rough and their tariffs are just like the tip of the iceberg, the classic, the rest of the iceberg below the water is so rough and so difficult and they have subsidies and they have trade barriers and you can't sell because if you lean one inch to the right or one inch to the left or you're not allowed to sell,
你會對那位說「你知道嗎？我其實要冒個險，等個一兩年，看看情況如何發展再採取行動」的 CEO 說什麼？這也意味著我們在投資方面將面臨真正的停滯。我想你會說——我們每天都在感受——你會在美國建設，這是全球貿易的重新排序，而且非常深思熟慮。如果你了解其他國家對美國產品有多苛刻，那些關稅只是冰山一角，經典的比喻，水面下的冰山部分更加嚴峻和困難，他們有補貼，有貿易壁壘，你根本無法銷售，因為只要你稍微偏右或偏左一點，就不被允許銷售，
I mean I tell the story, we made a deal in 2012 to take Korean cars and exchange, they were going to take our produce and agriculture and when McDonald's tried to bring in French fries. They actually said, we can't bring in the French fry, the American company can't bring in the French fries because we couldn't prove the origin of the potato. I am telling you the rules of the world are so stacked against us that we are just the consumer of the world and it's going to end and once that ends and once America wakes up to it and now all of America is going to wake up to it, everybody is going to build their factories here. Everybody is going to move their factories here and America is going to become the producer of much much more of what we consume. They will become a balance, interest rates will be much much lower, the United States of America will be much much stronger.
我的意思是，我講個故事，2012 年我們達成協議，用韓國汽車交換，他們打算進口我們的農產品，而當麥當勞試圖引進薯條時，他們竟然說，我們不能進口薯條，這家美國公司不能進口薯條，因為我們無法證明馬鈴薯的來源。我告訴你，這個世界的規則對我們如此不利，我們只是世界的消費者，這種情況即將結束，一旦結束，一旦美國意識到這一點，現在整個美國都會覺醒，每個人都會在這裡建廠。每個人都會把工廠搬到這裡，美國將成為我們消費的絕大部分產品的生產者。他們將達到平衡，利率會低得多，美利堅合眾國將變得更加強大。
We are growing much too much like the rest of the world. Our growth rates should be double or triple them because we are the greatest economy and we are feeding the world and Donald Trump would like to have America first. How about we feed America first? We start building these factories. You're going to start to see GDP domestic production go up. We talk about buying foreign cars. That's consumption, that's not domestic production. We're going to start to see domestic production dramatically rise and that's what Donald Trump has focused on. This is the secretary. We've got a hard number.
我們的成長速度與世界其他地區太過相似。作為全球最強大的經濟體，我們的增長率本應是他們的兩倍或三倍，因為我們正在養活全世界，而唐納德·川普希望美國優先。何不先養活美國？我們開始興建這些工廠，你將看到國內生產總值（GDP）上升。談到購買外國車，那是消費，不是國內生產。我們將見證國內生產大幅提升，這正是唐納德·川普所關注的重點。這是商務部長的觀點，我們有確切的數據。
We've got to think of claims, number coming at 830. We've got Friday and everything else but we appreciate all the time you gave us this morning and hope to see you playing all these things. Make the case. I said, yeah, the commerce secretary of me who probably be waffling a lot about all these things. That was sarcasm. You are not. You're very steadfast in making that case and we appreciate it.
我們得考慮 830 公佈的申領失業救濟人數數據，還有週五等其他事項，但非常感謝您今早抽空與我們交流，期待您能持續推動這些議題。提出論據時，我曾說，身為商務部長的我可能會對這些事情猶豫不決——那是諷刺。您並非如此，您立場堅定地闡述觀點，我們對此深表感激。
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